Discussion:
What a RIM recruiter told me
(too old to reply)
Hipp
2004-11-17 18:21:39 UTC
Permalink
I was at the RIM job fair in Toronto on moday, and I confronted a RIM
recruiter as to why I constantly get rejected for the positions I apply for,
that I believe I qualified for.
Seems this 20 something fashion model is speculating, forecasting and
pre-judging based on generalizations. Just as it would be unfair for me
label anyone attractive with tight clothes and plastic nails as stupid,
pre-judging based on folklore, it seems RIM recruiters dismiss applicants
like me, feeling that we are overqualified and would get bored after a week
and quit or post out, leaving a vacancy, or would quit because we wouldn't
be happy with the pay (words straight out of the recruiters mouths ).
What a crock of BS. Did anyone even bother to take the time to read and
understand my resume, or chat with me in an interview? Maybe after years of
fast paced corporate competition, some of us prefer to slow things down,
using our amassed skills and experience to do our jobs, at an above average
level, and to make continuous improvements of processes as needed.
Bottom line, it's called Age Discrimination.
Time to work at Wal-Mart.
Joe Canuck
2004-11-17 20:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hipp
I was at the RIM job fair in Toronto on moday, and I confronted a RIM
recruiter as to why I constantly get rejected for the positions I apply for,
that I believe I qualified for.
Seems this 20 something fashion model is speculating, forecasting and
pre-judging based on generalizations. Just as it would be unfair for me
label anyone attractive with tight clothes and plastic nails as stupid,
pre-judging based on folklore, it seems RIM recruiters dismiss applicants
like me, feeling that we are overqualified and would get bored after a week
and quit or post out, leaving a vacancy, or would quit because we wouldn't
be happy with the pay (words straight out of the recruiters mouths ).
What a crock of BS. Did anyone even bother to take the time to read and
understand my resume, or chat with me in an interview? Maybe after years of
fast paced corporate competition, some of us prefer to slow things down,
using our amassed skills and experience to do our jobs, at an above average
level, and to make continuous improvements of processes as needed.
Bottom line, it's called Age Discrimination.
Time to work at Wal-Mart.
Age discrimination is alive an well.

I was told by an ADECCO rep that an older worker might not fit well in a
workplace comprised mainly of younger workers. The message was clear,
don't expect us to place you in a position you may be fully qualified
for when you will be the oldest worker there.

The ADECCO rep expressed these thoughts to a group of older workers at
an adult education centre. The bottom line is we will be seeking
positions, but not sure whether to waste our time with ADECCO.
James
2004-11-17 22:47:15 UTC
Permalink
Wal-mart is another jerk, there's website http://forum.walmartsucks.com you
guys could check it out.
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
I was at the RIM job fair in Toronto on moday, and I confronted a RIM
recruiter as to why I constantly get rejected for the positions I apply for,
that I believe I qualified for.
Seems this 20 something fashion model is speculating, forecasting and
pre-judging based on generalizations. Just as it would be unfair for me
label anyone attractive with tight clothes and plastic nails as stupid,
pre-judging based on folklore, it seems RIM recruiters dismiss applicants
like me, feeling that we are overqualified and would get bored after a week
and quit or post out, leaving a vacancy, or would quit because we wouldn't
be happy with the pay (words straight out of the recruiters mouths ).
What a crock of BS. Did anyone even bother to take the time to read and
understand my resume, or chat with me in an interview? Maybe after years of
fast paced corporate competition, some of us prefer to slow things down,
using our amassed skills and experience to do our jobs, at an above average
level, and to make continuous improvements of processes as needed.
Bottom line, it's called Age Discrimination.
Time to work at Wal-Mart.
Age discrimination is alive an well.
I was told by an ADECCO rep that an older worker might not fit well in a
workplace comprised mainly of younger workers. The message was clear,
don't expect us to place you in a position you may be fully qualified
for when you will be the oldest worker there.
The ADECCO rep expressed these thoughts to a group of older workers at
an adult education centre. The bottom line is we will be seeking
positions, but not sure whether to waste our time with ADECCO.
Freddie Newsgroup
2004-11-18 00:47:53 UTC
Permalink
You should try having the baggage of having spent 30 some years in an
industry, and try explaining to the 20 something why you want a change. Try
explaining to someone in a tech industry who is so enthralled with thing
digital, that human's communications methods has not changed since we wrote
on the walls of the cave.

The channels have, but not the process.

Try explaining to someone that having learned to typeset on a hot lead
typesetter, can help me in laying out a page and setting the type (ooops cut
and paste).

They are trained to look for certain cookie cutter words. Find those words
and you are either moved along or tossed in the waste paper basket.
Post by James
Wal-mart is another jerk, there's website http://forum.walmartsucks.com you
guys could check it out.
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
I was at the RIM job fair in Toronto on moday, and I confronted a RIM
recruiter as to why I constantly get rejected for the positions I
apply
Post by James
for,
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
that I believe I qualified for.
Seems this 20 something fashion model is speculating, forecasting and
pre-judging based on generalizations. Just as it would be unfair for me
label anyone attractive with tight clothes and plastic nails as stupid,
pre-judging based on folklore, it seems RIM recruiters dismiss
applicants
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
like me, feeling that we are overqualified and would get bored after a
week
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
and quit or post out, leaving a vacancy, or would quit because we
wouldn't
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
be happy with the pay (words straight out of the recruiters mouths ).
What a crock of BS. Did anyone even bother to take the time to read and
understand my resume, or chat with me in an interview? Maybe after
years
Post by James
of
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
fast paced corporate competition, some of us prefer to slow things down,
using our amassed skills and experience to do our jobs, at an above
average
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
level, and to make continuous improvements of processes as needed.
Bottom line, it's called Age Discrimination.
Time to work at Wal-Mart.
Age discrimination is alive an well.
I was told by an ADECCO rep that an older worker might not fit well in a
workplace comprised mainly of younger workers. The message was clear,
don't expect us to place you in a position you may be fully qualified
for when you will be the oldest worker there.
The ADECCO rep expressed these thoughts to a group of older workers at
an adult education centre. The bottom line is we will be seeking
positions, but not sure whether to waste our time with ADECCO.
James
2004-11-18 03:21:50 UTC
Permalink
I know a manager whose department has a openning position. a high level
position. I was working there as volunteer more than 1 year, waiting for a
chance. But I still can not get the job. The problem is not on my side. you
know why?

He hired a lady who is his relation. And this lady knows nothing about this
industry.

what do you think? guys?
Post by Freddie Newsgroup
You should try having the baggage of having spent 30 some years in an
industry, and try explaining to the 20 something why you want a change. Try
explaining to someone in a tech industry who is so enthralled with thing
on the walls of the cave.
The channels have, but not the process.
Try explaining to someone that having learned to typeset on a hot lead
typesetter, can help me in laying out a page and setting the type (ooops cut
and paste).
They are trained to look for certain cookie cutter words. Find those words
and you are either moved along or tossed in the waste paper basket.
Post by James
Wal-mart is another jerk, there's website http://forum.walmartsucks.com
you
Post by James
guys could check it out.
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
I was at the RIM job fair in Toronto on moday, and I confronted a RIM
recruiter as to why I constantly get rejected for the positions I
apply
Post by James
for,
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
that I believe I qualified for.
Seems this 20 something fashion model is speculating, forecasting and
pre-judging based on generalizations. Just as it would be unfair for
me
Post by James
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
label anyone attractive with tight clothes and plastic nails as
stupid,
Post by James
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
pre-judging based on folklore, it seems RIM recruiters dismiss
applicants
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
like me, feeling that we are overqualified and would get bored after a
week
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
and quit or post out, leaving a vacancy, or would quit because we
wouldn't
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
be happy with the pay (words straight out of the recruiters mouths ).
What a crock of BS. Did anyone even bother to take the time to read
and
Post by James
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
understand my resume, or chat with me in an interview? Maybe after
years
Post by James
of
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
fast paced corporate competition, some of us prefer to slow things
down,
Post by James
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
using our amassed skills and experience to do our jobs, at an above
average
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by Hipp
level, and to make continuous improvements of processes as needed.
Bottom line, it's called Age Discrimination.
Time to work at Wal-Mart.
Age discrimination is alive an well.
I was told by an ADECCO rep that an older worker might not fit well in a
workplace comprised mainly of younger workers. The message was clear,
don't expect us to place you in a position you may be fully qualified
for when you will be the oldest worker there.
The ADECCO rep expressed these thoughts to a group of older workers at
an adult education centre. The bottom line is we will be seeking
positions, but not sure whether to waste our time with ADECCO.
No Buddy
2004-11-18 05:07:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
I know a manager whose department has a openning position. a high
level position. I was working there as volunteer more than 1 year,
waiting for a chance. But I still can not get the job. The problem is
not on my side. you know why?
He hired a lady who is his relation. And this lady knows nothing
about this industry.
what do you think? guys?
Does he have any relatives that I could marry? (In-laws count, right?)
Upscale
2004-11-18 07:33:06 UTC
Permalink
I know a manager whose department has a opening position. a high
level position. I was working there as volunteer more than 1 year,
waiting for a chance. But I still can not get the job.
He hired a lady who is his relation. And this lady knows nothing
about this industry.
And is this a position you could have done? If so, why are you still working
there? If this woman was hired completely because of nepotism, I'd be in to
tell his boss that you're quitting and why. I'd also be telling him that you
don't want to work for a company that doesn't recognize employees who are
making a contribution while others exist solely because they happen to be
related to someone in authority.

Either you're staying there because you're getting something in return, or
you have absolutely no self confidence and have placed yourself in the
position of being a whipping boy. Get up some guts and make your feelings
known otherwise the past year you've spent there has been wasted.
James
2004-11-18 12:38:41 UTC
Permalink
Thank you guys.
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when knew
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I could get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.

Now, I 'm keep looking for a job. Good luck, guys.
Post by Upscale
I know a manager whose department has a opening position. a high
level position. I was working there as volunteer more than 1 year,
waiting for a chance. But I still can not get the job.
He hired a lady who is his relation. And this lady knows nothing
about this industry.
And is this a position you could have done? If so, why are you still working
there? If this woman was hired completely because of nepotism, I'd be in to
tell his boss that you're quitting and why. I'd also be telling him that you
don't want to work for a company that doesn't recognize employees who are
making a contribution while others exist solely because they happen to be
related to someone in authority.
Either you're staying there because you're getting something in return, or
you have absolutely no self confidence and have placed yourself in the
position of being a whipping boy. Get up some guts and make your feelings
known otherwise the past year you've spent there has been wasted.
Upscale
2004-11-18 12:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when knew
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I could get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if anything
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then quitting, (aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste if
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
3287448
2004-11-18 16:33:29 UTC
Permalink
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I could get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if anything
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then quitting, (aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste if
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
James
2004-11-18 14:01:45 UTC
Permalink
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I could get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if anything
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then quitting, (aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste if
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
3287448
2004-11-18 18:55:49 UTC
Permalink
I taught the manager about the data base, edi etc.(I do not know how he can
get the job. ask HR-they do very good job). a middle east woman screwed up
my computer(i had mentioned to her not to do it) when i went to the meeting.
I complained, but he does not care because he just wants to get the job and
to protect himself.
Post by James
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I could get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if
anything
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then quitting, (aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste
if
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
Gadget Guy
2004-11-18 16:40:54 UTC
Permalink
?
What are you trying to say?
You taught what manager? Ask HR about what? What meeting?
Who did you complain to? Who doesn't care? Who is trying to get a job?
-------------------------------------
Post by 3287448
I taught the manager about the data base, edi etc.(I do not know how he can
get the job. ask HR-they do very good job). a middle east woman screwed up
my computer(i had mentioned to her not to do it) when i went to the meeting.
I complained, but he does not care because he just wants to get the job and
to protect himself.
Post by James
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I could get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if
anything
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then quitting, (aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste
if
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
3287448
2004-11-18 22:38:46 UTC
Permalink
None of your business, this is for James.
Post by Gadget Guy
?
What are you trying to say?
You taught what manager? Ask HR about what? What meeting?
Who did you complain to? Who doesn't care? Who is trying to get a job?
-------------------------------------
Post by 3287448
I taught the manager about the data base, edi etc.(I do not know how he
can get the job. ask HR-they do very good job). a middle east woman
screwed up my computer(i had mentioned to her not to do it) when i went
to the meeting. I complained, but he does not care because he just wants
to get the job and to protect himself.
Post by James
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I could get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if
anything
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then quitting, (aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste
if
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
Larry G
2004-11-19 04:59:52 UTC
Permalink
With an attitude like that its no wonder you didn't get the job. Or could it
be your lack of knowlege concerning the english language?
Your story makes no sense. There is no point, no logic, nothing.
Post by 3287448
None of your business, this is for James.
Post by Gadget Guy
?
What are you trying to say?
You taught what manager? Ask HR about what? What meeting?
Who did you complain to? Who doesn't care? Who is trying to get a job?
-------------------------------------
Post by 3287448
I taught the manager about the data base, edi etc.(I do not know how he
can get the job. ask HR-they do very good job). a middle east woman
screwed up my computer(i had mentioned to her not to do it) when i went
to the meeting. I complained, but he does not care because he just wants
to get the job and to protect himself.
Post by James
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I
could
get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if
anything
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then quitting, (aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste
if
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
Gadget Guy
2004-11-19 15:35:41 UTC
Permalink
I was going to say something about this guy's lack of the english
language, but I think people can gather that conclusion for themselves.

Words right out of my mouth, Larry.
Post by Larry G
With an attitude like that its no wonder you didn't get the job. Or could it
be your lack of knowlege concerning the english language?
Your story makes no sense. There is no point, no logic, nothing.
Post by 3287448
None of your business, this is for James.
Post by Gadget Guy
?
What are you trying to say?
You taught what manager? Ask HR about what? What meeting?
Who did you complain to? Who doesn't care? Who is trying to get a job?
-------------------------------------
Post by 3287448
I taught the manager about the data base, edi etc.(I do not know how he
can get the job. ask HR-they do very good job). a middle east woman
screwed up my computer(i had mentioned to her not to do it) when i went
to the meeting. I complained, but he does not care because he just wants
to get the job and to protect himself.
Post by James
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I
could
get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if
anything
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then quitting, (aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste
if
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
Joe Canuck
2004-11-19 12:18:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by 3287448
None of your business, this is for James.
Then send your comments via email, this is a public newsgroup where all
the posts are everyone's business.
Post by 3287448
Post by Gadget Guy
?
What are you trying to say?
You taught what manager? Ask HR about what? What meeting?
Who did you complain to? Who doesn't care? Who is trying to get a job?
-------------------------------------
Post by 3287448
I taught the manager about the data base, edi etc.(I do not know how he
can get the job. ask HR-they do very good job). a middle east woman
screwed up my computer(i had mentioned to her not to do it) when i went
to the meeting. I complained, but he does not care because he just wants
to get the job and to protect himself.
Post by James
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I could get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if
anything
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then quitting, (aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste
if
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
Gadget Guy
2004-11-19 16:01:34 UTC
Permalink
This reminds me of a story. bare with me:

Years ago a guy was hired at the shop by the owners. I was in charge of
it. While I was training him on equipment, I had a difficult time
because his english was very bad to the point where whatever he asked
was not understandable. This guy was doing well on training. However,
every Monday he seems to forget absolutely everything and the training
needed to be done all over again every single week. Later I told the
owners that I beleived this guy lied about his past experiences. It was
then confirmed. He didn't have the necessary experience. One day the guy
had had enough, quit and stormed out of the building. He just didn't
want to follow any orders on how the jobs needed to be done.

Later we were notified by our beloved Canadian government that we were
not properly training him and descriminated against him. She was
investigating us. I talked to this lady and mentioned the following:

This individual was still on probation and the company decides to let
him go or not. He lied about his qualifications (to certain extents) and
he just quit. He was putting himself in danger by not following orders
on how to handle the equipment.

When this lady mentioned that is my responsibility to train people, I
blasted her. I told this lady, yes it WAS my job to train, but it's the
gov't's job to have employable people speak and understand english and
educated BEFORE they are even permitted to work. I also told her that
the government doesn't have the right to tell me how to run the company
in these matters.

The convsersation continued with me firing back. Then this lady backed
down and agreed with my my arguements. We never heard from our officials
again.
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by 3287448
None of your business, this is for James.
Then send your comments via email, this is a public newsgroup where all
the posts are everyone's business.
Post by 3287448
Post by Gadget Guy
?
What are you trying to say?
You taught what manager? Ask HR about what? What meeting?
Who did you complain to? Who doesn't care? Who is trying to get a job?
-------------------------------------
Post by 3287448
I taught the manager about the data base, edi etc.(I do not know how
he can get the job. ask HR-they do very good job). a middle east
woman screwed up my computer(i had mentioned to her not to do it)
when i went to the meeting. I complained, but he does not care
because he just wants to get the job and to protect himself.
Post by James
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I
could
get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if
anything
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then
quitting,
(aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste
if
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
3287448
2004-11-20 12:04:43 UTC
Permalink
I know a PHD, he can not find the job so he has to hide PHD qual.
I also know some real engineers. The real Canadian complains their English
because they are using some kind of special terms in the reports that they
do not understand.
We - Canadian do not accept new stuff and new ideas, so we get this kind of
poor economy.
Hi tech goes to usa, cheap labour goes to Mexico, we get Canadian
experience.
Post by Gadget Guy
Years ago a guy was hired at the shop by the owners. I was in charge of
it. While I was training him on equipment, I had a difficult time because
his english was very bad to the point where whatever he asked was not
understandable. This guy was doing well on training. However, every Monday
he seems to forget absolutely everything and the training needed to be
done all over again every single week. Later I told the owners that I
beleived this guy lied about his past experiences. It was then confirmed.
He didn't have the necessary experience. One day the guy had had enough,
quit and stormed out of the building. He just didn't want to follow any
orders on how the jobs needed to be done.
Later we were notified by our beloved Canadian government that we were not
properly training him and descriminated against him. She was investigating
This individual was still on probation and the company decides to let him
go or not. He lied about his qualifications (to certain extents) and he
just quit. He was putting himself in danger by not following orders on how
to handle the equipment.
When this lady mentioned that is my responsibility to train people, I
blasted her. I told this lady, yes it WAS my job to train, but it's the
gov't's job to have employable people speak and understand english and
educated BEFORE they are even permitted to work. I also told her that the
government doesn't have the right to tell me how to run the company in
these matters.
The convsersation continued with me firing back. Then this lady backed
down and agreed with my my arguements. We never heard from our officials
again.
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by 3287448
None of your business, this is for James.
Then send your comments via email, this is a public newsgroup where all
the posts are everyone's business.
Post by 3287448
Post by Gadget Guy
?
What are you trying to say?
You taught what manager? Ask HR about what? What meeting?
Who did you complain to? Who doesn't care? Who is trying to get a job?
-------------------------------------
Post by 3287448
I taught the manager about the data base, edi etc.(I do not know how
he can get the job. ask HR-they do very good job). a middle east woman
screwed up my computer(i had mentioned to her not to do it) when i
went to the meeting. I complained, but he does not care because he
just wants to get the job and to protect himself.
Post by James
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I
could
get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if
anything
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then
quitting,
(aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste
if
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
Beyonder
2004-11-20 15:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Noo.... the US is just as screwed as we are, even more so now.
"Word on the street" is that the US economy is about to dump... in a
really bad way, everything is going offshore. less than 2 years there
will be no tech jobs there at all. and all service work (or the
majority) will be automated. Think McD's and Walmart with automated
kiosks and zero staff - or nearly zero. we've already got totally
automated car-wash places with no humans as far as the eye can see.

this keeps up india and china will own the world. speaking of which,
china's economy is exploding!

time to learn some mandarin!

B.
Post by 3287448
I know a PHD, he can not find the job so he has to hide PHD qual.
I also know some real engineers. The real Canadian complains their English
because they are using some kind of special terms in the reports that they
do not understand.
We - Canadian do not accept new stuff and new ideas, so we get this kind of
poor economy.
Hi tech goes to usa, cheap labour goes to Mexico, we get Canadian
experience.
Post by Gadget Guy
Years ago a guy was hired at the shop by the owners. I was in charge of
it. While I was training him on equipment, I had a difficult time because
his english was very bad to the point where whatever he asked was not
understandable. This guy was doing well on training. However, every Monday
he seems to forget absolutely everything and the training needed to be
done all over again every single week. Later I told the owners that I
beleived this guy lied about his past experiences. It was then confirmed.
He didn't have the necessary experience. One day the guy had had enough,
quit and stormed out of the building. He just didn't want to follow any
orders on how the jobs needed to be done.
Later we were notified by our beloved Canadian government that we were not
properly training him and descriminated against him. She was investigating
This individual was still on probation and the company decides to let him
go or not. He lied about his qualifications (to certain extents) and he
just quit. He was putting himself in danger by not following orders on how
to handle the equipment.
When this lady mentioned that is my responsibility to train people, I
blasted her. I told this lady, yes it WAS my job to train, but it's the
gov't's job to have employable people speak and understand english and
educated BEFORE they are even permitted to work. I also told her that the
government doesn't have the right to tell me how to run the company in
these matters.
The convsersation continued with me firing back. Then this lady backed
down and agreed with my my arguements. We never heard from our officials
again.
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by 3287448
None of your business, this is for James.
Then send your comments via email, this is a public newsgroup where all
the posts are everyone's business.
Post by 3287448
Post by Gadget Guy
?
What are you trying to say?
You taught what manager? Ask HR about what? What meeting?
Who did you complain to? Who doesn't care? Who is trying to get a job?
-------------------------------------
Post by 3287448
I taught the manager about the data base, edi etc.(I do not know how
he can get the job. ask HR-they do very good job). a middle east woman
screwed up my computer(i had mentioned to her not to do it) when i
went to the meeting. I complained, but he does not care because he
just wants to get the job and to protect himself.
Post by James
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just quit when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I
could
get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind
managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if
anything
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then
quitting,
(aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste
if
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
Dan Perl
2004-11-20 19:24:13 UTC
Permalink
Ed Yourdon published a book, "Decline & Fall of the American Programmer", in
1992. Later, in 1996, he published yet another book, "Rise & Resurrection
of the American Programmer", trying to save face from the bad calls he made
in the first book.

There have been such doomsayers before and they have been wrong. Some day
what they predict may still happen, but even just making the prediction too
early is still making such doomsayers wrong.

The high-tech industry is certainly going through some big changes and who
knows how this "revolution" is going to end. Some jobs will go overseas for
sure. However, I am certain it will still be possible to make a career in
high tech in North America.

Dan
Post by Beyonder
Noo.... the US is just as screwed as we are, even more so now.
"Word on the street" is that the US economy is about to dump... in a
really bad way, everything is going offshore. less than 2 years there
will be no tech jobs there at all. and all service work (or the
majority) will be automated. Think McD's and Walmart with automated
kiosks and zero staff - or nearly zero. we've already got totally
automated car-wash places with no humans as far as the eye can see.
this keeps up india and china will own the world. speaking of which,
china's economy is exploding!
time to learn some mandarin!
B.
Ken Tough
2004-11-21 20:01:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Perl
There have been such doomsayers before and they have been wrong. Some day
what they predict may still happen, but even just making the prediction too
early is still making such doomsayers wrong.
The high-tech industry is certainly going through some big changes and who
knows how this "revolution" is going to end. Some jobs will go overseas for
sure. However, I am certain it will still be possible to make a career in
high tech in North America.
It's not just high-tech which is about to take the extremely rocky
road, but the entire American economy. Investment in development
will be the first casualty. Remember what happened to Japan through
the 90's until now? The US trade deficit is huge, they're looking to
borrow another $1T to cover the current shortfall, and the dollar is
about to take a deathspiral. This isn't my doomsaying, but that of
Ed Greenspan amongst others. Already Europe, and especially the UK,
is streaks ahead in the amount of high-tech work going. It's difficult,
as I'm keen to move to Canada, but it seems the depressed state of
growth in Namerica is clouding everything. UK & Ireland are looking
very sunny. I hope you're right, and hope a career in Namerica is
going to be possible. I just wish it looked as rosy as over the pond.
--
Ken Tough
3287448
2004-11-21 00:09:32 UTC
Permalink
I agree with you, but only certain points.
There are 2 important points:
1. I would like to say everybody is doing business by using US dollars as a
standard.
2. Everybody is keep an eye on US economy.
I can say at the present moment USA is playing politics, I believe one major
resaon is the war in Iraq. USA pushes up the oil price, so that they can
cover all the expenses.
Post by Beyonder
Noo.... the US is just as screwed as we are, even more so now.
"Word on the street" is that the US economy is about to dump... in a
really bad way, everything is going offshore. less than 2 years there
will be no tech jobs there at all. and all service work (or the
majority) will be automated. Think McD's and Walmart with automated
kiosks and zero staff - or nearly zero. we've already got totally
automated car-wash places with no humans as far as the eye can see.
this keeps up india and china will own the world. speaking of which,
china's economy is exploding!
time to learn some mandarin!
B.
Post by 3287448
I know a PHD, he can not find the job so he has to hide PHD qual.
I also know some real engineers. The real Canadian complains their English
because they are using some kind of special terms in the reports that they
do not understand.
We - Canadian do not accept new stuff and new ideas, so we get this kind of
poor economy.
Hi tech goes to usa, cheap labour goes to Mexico, we get Canadian
experience.
Post by Gadget Guy
Years ago a guy was hired at the shop by the owners. I was in charge of
it. While I was training him on equipment, I had a difficult time because
his english was very bad to the point where whatever he asked was not
understandable. This guy was doing well on training. However, every Monday
he seems to forget absolutely everything and the training needed to be
done all over again every single week. Later I told the owners that I
beleived this guy lied about his past experiences. It was then confirmed.
He didn't have the necessary experience. One day the guy had had enough,
quit and stormed out of the building. He just didn't want to follow any
orders on how the jobs needed to be done.
Later we were notified by our beloved Canadian government that we were not
properly training him and descriminated against him. She was
investigating
This individual was still on probation and the company decides to let him
go or not. He lied about his qualifications (to certain extents) and he
just quit. He was putting himself in danger by not following orders on how
to handle the equipment.
When this lady mentioned that is my responsibility to train people, I
blasted her. I told this lady, yes it WAS my job to train, but it's the
gov't's job to have employable people speak and understand english and
educated BEFORE they are even permitted to work. I also told her that the
government doesn't have the right to tell me how to run the company in
these matters.
The convsersation continued with me firing back. Then this lady backed
down and agreed with my my arguements. We never heard from our officials
again.
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by 3287448
None of your business, this is for James.
Then send your comments via email, this is a public newsgroup where all
the posts are everyone's business.
Post by 3287448
Post by Gadget Guy
?
What are you trying to say?
You taught what manager? Ask HR about what? What meeting?
Who did you complain to? Who doesn't care? Who is trying to get a job?
-------------------------------------
Post by 3287448
I taught the manager about the data base, edi etc.(I do not know how
he can get the job. ask HR-they do very good job). a middle east woman
screwed up my computer(i had mentioned to her not to do it) when i
went to the meeting. I complained, but he does not care because he
just wants to get the job and to protect himself.
Post by James
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just
quit
when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I
could
get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind
managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if
anything
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then
quitting,
(aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much a waste
if
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
JoJo
2004-11-21 00:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by 3287448
I agree with you, but only certain points.
1. I would like to say everybody is doing business by using US dollars as a
standard.
Well not for too long. US dolar being a world's currency has it's historical
roots
where US promised a dollar could have been exchanged for gold until Reagan
administration pulled the plug. If US contrinues to print money (a.k.a
create credit)
at a rate that has done last decade nobody would like to keep a piece of
paper
that has only US government's goodwill. Besides, the US apetite for
consumption
(i.e. borrowing and trade deficits) will not be provided by China's and
Japan's
buying of US treasuries for long. If EU emerges a solid trading block with a
solid currency do not be suprised when you are asked for euro while
travelling
abroad. OPEC already hinted that they want to switch to euro.
Post by 3287448
2. Everybody is keep an eye on US economy.
That's right. Everybody is watching US economy for a different reason
though.
Should we still keep supporting US consumption or put our investments
into other countries where we may get a better return for our capital ?. If
you are
investing in a country whose currency keeps going down you are losing money
when you get the dividend or the interest for your money.

I know that this is not an economics forum but the US as well as
Asian economies have a direct impact on our jobs too.
Post by 3287448
I can say at the present moment USA is playing politics, I believe one major
resaon is the war in Iraq. USA pushes up the oil price, so that they can
cover all the expenses.
Post by Beyonder
Noo.... the US is just as screwed as we are, even more so now.
"Word on the street" is that the US economy is about to dump... in a
really bad way, everything is going offshore. less than 2 years there
will be no tech jobs there at all. and all service work (or the
majority) will be automated. Think McD's and Walmart with automated
kiosks and zero staff - or nearly zero. we've already got totally
automated car-wash places with no humans as far as the eye can see.
this keeps up india and china will own the world. speaking of which,
china's economy is exploding!
time to learn some mandarin!
B.
Post by 3287448
I know a PHD, he can not find the job so he has to hide PHD qual.
I also know some real engineers. The real Canadian complains their English
because they are using some kind of special terms in the reports that they
do not understand.
We - Canadian do not accept new stuff and new ideas, so we get this kind of
poor economy.
Hi tech goes to usa, cheap labour goes to Mexico, we get Canadian
experience.
Post by Gadget Guy
Years ago a guy was hired at the shop by the owners. I was in charge of
it. While I was training him on equipment, I had a difficult time because
his english was very bad to the point where whatever he asked was not
understandable. This guy was doing well on training. However, every Monday
he seems to forget absolutely everything and the training needed to be
done all over again every single week. Later I told the owners that I
beleived this guy lied about his past experiences. It was then confirmed.
He didn't have the necessary experience. One day the guy had had enough,
quit and stormed out of the building. He just didn't want to follow any
orders on how the jobs needed to be done.
Later we were notified by our beloved Canadian government that we were not
properly training him and descriminated against him. She was investigating
This individual was still on probation and the company decides to let him
go or not. He lied about his qualifications (to certain extents) and he
just quit. He was putting himself in danger by not following orders on how
to handle the equipment.
When this lady mentioned that is my responsibility to train people, I
blasted her. I told this lady, yes it WAS my job to train, but it's the
gov't's job to have employable people speak and understand english and
educated BEFORE they are even permitted to work. I also told her that the
government doesn't have the right to tell me how to run the company in
these matters.
The convsersation continued with me firing back. Then this lady backed
down and agreed with my my arguements. We never heard from our officials
again.
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by 3287448
None of your business, this is for James.
Then send your comments via email, this is a public newsgroup where all
the posts are everyone's business.
Post by 3287448
Post by Gadget Guy
?
What are you trying to say?
You taught what manager? Ask HR about what? What meeting?
Who did you complain to? Who doesn't care? Who is trying to get a job?
-------------------------------------
Post by 3287448
I taught the manager about the data base, edi etc.(I do not know how
he can get the job. ask HR-they do very good job). a middle east woman
screwed up my computer(i had mentioned to her not to do it) when i
went to the meeting. I complained, but he does not care because he
just wants to get the job and to protect himself.
Post by James
Tell me your story, will you?
Post by 3287448
I do not believe the company will support you - it is my experience.
Post by Upscale
Post by James
Of course, I could do the position even higher. I quit, just
quit
when
knew
Post by James
the result. The manager let the lady to lie, said she did that
kind of
position before. This is fate, guys. Actually, in that comany, I
could
get
nothing but keep my skills, but I don't want any more. Those kind
managers
are in every corner of GTA.
Did you explain to them why you were quitting? And if so, what if
anything
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
were you told in response? Volunteering for a year and then
quitting,
(aside
from the personal satisfaction of contributing) is pretty much
a
Post by 3287448
Post by Beyonder
Post by 3287448
Post by Gadget Guy
Post by Joe Canuck
Post by 3287448
Post by Gadget Guy
Post by 3287448
Post by James
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
waste
if
Post by 3287448
Post by Upscale
you didn't at least voice your opinion to them.
Ken Tough
2004-11-21 20:12:47 UTC
Permalink
Besides, the US apetite for consumption (i.e. borrowing and trade
deficits) will not be provided by China's and Japan's buying of US
treasuries for long. If EU emerges a solid trading block with a
solid currency do not be suprised when you are asked for euro while
travelling abroad. OPEC already hinted that they want to switch
to euro.
You're right on. The US economy survives on a spiral of consumption,
and if the imminent collapse of the int'l dollar price is as bad as
Greenspan seems to be forecasting, then that is going to take a
terrible hit. (Or unemployment will rise hugely if interest rates
rise). If they don't want that, growth is going to freeze like
Japan, and years of stagnation are going to have to happen. It's
just a fact of life, since it's such an overinflated bubble of
'nothing' (i.e. the trade deficit is so huge partly because the
economy is hinging so much more and more on 'non-productive'
service industry). If the euro becomes the currency of choice
in eastern europe including Russia [esp since so much of eastern
europe is now EU] then this will signal the start of a downfall,
or at least a down generation. Eventually, surely somebody has
got to tire of loaning money to a country so many trillions in debt.
--
Ken Tough
Augustus
2004-11-19 05:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hipp
it seems RIM recruiters
dismiss applicants
Post by Hipp
like me, feeling that we are overqualified and would get bored after a week
and quit or post out, leaving a vacancy, or would quit because we wouldn't
be happy with the pay
I'm not really sure how the "age discrimination" plays into it...

Back in 1998 I was working for the Government of BC in "mainframe
operations" and my department was downsized and I was sent packing with 2
others.

At the time I was 28 years old and leaving a $90,000 a year job...
everything you heard above was the same thing I heard, and like I say: I was
only 28... so its hard to imagine age discriminaton playing a part in it.

And in a way I can see their point... I looked for jobs that were more akin
to my past skill and pay levels, but in finding nothing I started applying
for just about anything that I could qualify.

After about 6 months of unemployment I was called in to interview for a tech
support position at Telus... the women conducting the interview liked me,
they loved my resume, skillset and past experience...

The problem was when they asked me: "So you previously worked in mainframe
operations and helpdesk... that was probably a $60-70,000 a year job... why
would you want to settle for one that pays only $30,000 a year?"

At the time, my EI was about a month and a half away from running out, my
wife was having a hard time getting full time hours at work, bills were
piling up at home, I still owed $20,000 to the credit card company... I
would have gladly taken the job and been happy about it just to have
something coming in.

But realistically there is nothing I could have said to make them believe
that, because one can presume that most people don't want to take a step
back in life and that they would take the next available chance to either
move on to a new job or transfer to a better department in the company.

And its kind of a Catch-22... If I said "You are right... as soon I put in
my 3 months and get union seniority I'll be applying for higher jobs within
the company and to other companies this union is in" then they wouldn't want
to hire me.... if I said "Look, I am so desperate! I need this job! I
promise I'll stay if you hire me!" they aren't going to want somebody who is
going to "settle" for something and then possibly give a half-assed effort
to the job because they see it as beneath them

Ah well... in the end I am much better off that I didn't wind up settling
with that job... I had a couple of tough years in there, but things worked
out for the best in the end.

Clint
Jeff Gruntz
2004-11-19 07:00:47 UTC
Permalink
RIM....lol. I applied there. I actually travelled from Belleville down
to Kitchener/Waterloo for one day (which is like a five hour drive) and
had four rounds of interviews. I was under the impression that I had the
job and then received an email from them saying "thanks, but no thanks"
with regards to a job. No explanation. When I tried to get an
explanation from anyone at RIM, not one person would return my calls or
my emails. I was insulted more than anything. I called all my references
and they stated that RIM had called and that I was given great
references by all the places I had used. To me, the fact that RIM didn't
even bother calling and left an email showed me how classless of an
organization they really were and that maybe, just maybe I'm better off
not working for them.
Hipp
2004-11-19 13:00:58 UTC
Permalink
RIM is hiring 500 people....500!!! Any they reject qualified applicants,
choosing to hire based on demographics, skin color and handicap.
Post by Jeff Gruntz
RIM....lol. I applied there. I actually travelled from Belleville down
to Kitchener/Waterloo for one day (which is like a five hour drive) and
had four rounds of interviews. I was under the impression that I had the
job and then received an email from them saying "thanks, but no thanks"
with regards to a job. No explanation. When I tried to get an
explanation from anyone at RIM, not one person would return my calls or
my emails. I was insulted more than anything. I called all my references
and they stated that RIM had called and that I was given great
references by all the places I had used. To me, the fact that RIM didn't
even bother calling and left an email showed me how classless of an
organization they really were and that maybe, just maybe I'm better off
not working for them.
Peter
2004-11-19 14:13:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hipp
RIM is hiring 500 people....500!!! Any they reject qualified applicants,
choosing to hire based on demographics, skin color and handicap.
Watch what you are saying there sparky. One of those dscriptors applys to
me and I sure as hell didn't get a job offer from them! Maybe they saw that
I was actually qualified for the position and got confused... :-)

Peter
ADSL Modem
2004-11-19 21:30:50 UTC
Permalink
Hahahahahahaha, they have a job fair here in Ottawa next month, I wonder why
they are not posting any news about it on this newsgroup.
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
Employment agencies really sucks, one guy from XXXXX Agency was calling me,
he was spelling RTOS in a different way, I asked him what was that and then
I realized it was RTOS. You can go to the postings and you will realize what
kind of people are working there, they do not know even a bit of what they
are doing. Regarding companies the same bullshit. Some of them are even
posting fake jobs just to know what they will have available in the future,
even making people going for interviews knowing they are not hiring for that
fake positions.
Note: To all the sons of Shakespeare here, sorry about my English, so do not
take your time to talk about it hahahahahaha.
My Best Regards
Post by Hipp
I was at the RIM job fair in Toronto on moday, and I confronted a RIM
recruiter as to why I constantly get rejected for the positions I apply for,
that I believe I qualified for.
Seems this 20 something fashion model is speculating, forecasting and
pre-judging based on generalizations. Just as it would be unfair for me
label anyone attractive with tight clothes and plastic nails as stupid,
pre-judging based on folklore, it seems RIM recruiters dismiss applicants
like me, feeling that we are overqualified and would get bored after a week
and quit or post out, leaving a vacancy, or would quit because we wouldn't
be happy with the pay (words straight out of the recruiters mouths ).
What a crock of BS. Did anyone even bother to take the time to read and
understand my resume, or chat with me in an interview? Maybe after years of
fast paced corporate competition, some of us prefer to slow things down,
using our amassed skills and experience to do our jobs, at an above average
level, and to make continuous improvements of processes as needed.
Bottom line, it's called Age Discrimination.
Time to work at Wal-Mart.
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